Friday, January 11, 2008

What Would You Build?

I think it would be safe to say that the residents living at the Santiago Street Lofts moved to Santa Ana because they wanted to experience a true downtown lifestyle.

Unfortunately, as days go by, that dream seems to be drifting farther away, and this community, nearly two years into the first move-in, is already light years behind what City Place has already established (not including the Main Place Mall).

So forget about the Renaissance Project for a second and journey with me to the land of "Wouldn't it be Nice"; a SimCity Santa Ana–where our daily needs could be realized in an instant!

Here's my (growing) list:

  1. Borders or Barnes & Noble
  2. Chipotle
  3. Henry's, Tesco or Trader Joe's
  4. Coffee house (with Wi-Fi)
  5. Citrus Cafe (or similar restaurants)
  6. Old Navy (or even Gap)
  7. Cold Stone (or similar ice cream parlor)
  8. Dry Cleaners
  9. ....more to come
What would you build?


Kevin said...

Adding to your list...

1) light rail/subway to major OC spots (Disneyland, Newport Beach, Huntington Beach, South Coast Plaza/performing arts center, UCI, Irvine malls, etc).

2) regional park

3) park and ride

4) discount MTA passes to residents

5) community resource centers

6) police substations (bicycle and/or horseman patrol)

7) healthy cafes

8) bistro/brasseries

9)some trendy bars

10) new libraries

11) non-profit companies

12) for-profit companies (commerical and manufacturing)

Anonymous said...

I guess it's time to go to the council meetings again and light a fire.

By the way, I don't know about anyone else, but our homeowners meetings being only twice a year sucks.

I want to fire Kim Dean.

Sorry for getting off point, but I always feel like change has to start at home.

me said...

very soon we will be able to fire Keystone. THey don't care they just make sure the bills are paid by us and hopefully the bills are paid to our service providers and insurers but no due dilligence on their part for the actual quality of our homes.

MY DREAM: Is to have a community going on... Have our workspaces thriving...

Urban Messiah said...

1) a Ted Baker Store, Ben Sherman would work too.
2) Native Foods, Veggie Grill or some other Vegan/Veg restaurant which includes talking the owner of Millennium in SF to open a location down here.
3) Talk the owner of Blowfish sushi, another SF hot spot who opened in the hood up there before it became "SOMA," to open a location here.
4) DWR
5) Peet's
6) American Rag
7) A park, with .50 caliber anti-tagger auto turants, but taggers wouldn't exist in my world so strike that.
8) The Crosby to open, finally.
9) Vespa Dealership to get some people scootering around town.
10) A really sweet high-end bicycle store which I would own.

Urban Messiah said...

BTW, City Place is due to have a Geisha House, not to mention a Mother's market, which is a pretty sweet spot out of LA. I know Prime Urban,, is due to start something across from me and the other North Enders within the next year or so? It is my understanding that they already own the land and that the Crevier family is financing a large part of the project. We shall see.

CreativeJuices said...

1. Henry's AND Trader Joe's
2. Peet's Coffee
3. Modernica
4. DWR
5. Dub Club - so I don't have to drive to LA every wednesday night
6. An artsy-fartsy movie theater showing independent + foreign movies in beautiful languages I can't understand
7. Used Vinyl store
8. La Brea Bakery
9. Felix Continental Cafe - my latest & greatest find and highly recommended by this foodie
(for the BEST food from Cuba & Spain)
10. a smoky Jazz Club
11. a cutting edge Museum of Modern Art - so we can bask in the sculpture ZEN garden while listening to free concerts on sunday mornings
12. a Vegan joint
13. BBQ joint - even though i don't eat red meat
14. Creole/Cajun joint
15. Sushi joint
16. Thai joint
17. Vietnamese joint
18. Indian or Pakistani joint
19. a Dog park with complimentary bags offered in dispensers so "you know who" can pick up after his/her pet.
20. and yes, a cool Coffee House with a great vibe & WiFi where we could all hang out. Hmm, I think I am having a serious case of deja vu..


Anonymous said...

Urban Messiah

FYI The project you speak of is a dream. I am not sure that those in Logan really want 3 story buildings looking in their back yards. Why do so many have a sense of entilement to take over our City? It is wrong to try to bull doze through areas that are part of our Historical makeup.
Fine be a good neighbor but leave our area to us.

Anonymous said...

Well, explain to us what is historical about property that has a junk yard, worn down and worn out (much like most of this city) former retail buildings and a trash dump. If that's the best the residents have come up with thus far maybe you should go back to the drawing board?

The Frito Bandito said...

Id like a monkey grinder.

maybe some mimes.

And a great big bulldozer so me and my exaggerated sense of entitlement can level some apartment complexes.


And a big damn American Flag flapping in the breeze.
to remind anonymous about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

The Frito Bandito said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ben Dayhoe said...

Wow! Great ideas all!

Especially the one about the American Flag. I too love me some America!

Frito, you always bring a smile to my face with your words.

Urban Messiah,

I've spoken with the Prime Urban guys (who are really cool by the way) and the last I heard, things were moving forward with that "historic" lot.

To poster #7, what do you suggest go in that lot? I personally would like to see some restaurants, lounges, cafes and a Chipotle on that side of the street.

Those businesses would benefit all, not just those in the loft communities.

Many people fear change because they feel that there is no place for them in the new era.

Well my friend, change is the ONLY constant in the known universe.

Those who fear change rally behind those who love to play the race card and abuse terms like gentrification and historical preservation, while offering no real-world solutions.

Speaking of change, I too want to fire Keystone Pacific. They are useless.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mayor Pulido, I hope you're reading this....

Time to stop pandering to the "votes" and make SA a great place to live.

Stop Walking on Egg Shells! said...

Pulido and Clownia don't care. They are pandering ding dongs.

Attend a Renaissance study session...The Questions raised by these politicians illustrate their true ignorance in how to handle fair housing, traffic, and sustainable redevelopment.

The renaissance plan is a cop out Instead of using what they have to enforce existing codes they are going to hide behind this pomp and circumstance to say "it's not us pushing you to follow the rules it's the Renaissance plan".

If one of our politicians IS reading this. You can "clean up" this city if you send in your hounds. Let Code inforcement go after Ware, Let the Attorney's write dirty letters to the absentee landlords. The problems that plauge neighborhoods can be fixed without this Renaissance BS. Just start taking ACTION.

Stop holding your Breath City Administration, start taking action. This will earn you my respect.

Saint Chris said...

Id like to see more diversity in the city. I love the Latino culture but I wish SA were more diverse like Long Beach, i.e., I could see some trendy Japanese girls, or some Black people once in a while.

I want to see cool people somewhere outside of the Artists Village.

Id like a vibrant hip hop scene, something other than the rapping cholos trying to imitate the latest Lil' Jon record. Some live jazz or a regular reggae or soul club would be awesome too (If Memphis can open in Santa Ana, why can't Detroit Bar?)

I want The (damm) Crosby to open (already).

I want the Red-light cameras (AKA speed traps to generate tax revenue to be wasted by the city) put out of commission.

I want a city council that isn't so jaw-droppingly corrupt and inept at solving problems.

I wish The Yost or the West Coast theatre on Main was turned into an a movie theatre again, and showed independent and foreign films. Hell, I just wish there was another movie theatre other than the Spanish one Downtown.

And an Arby's. Where is there another Arby's besides the one at Mainplace????

Ralph Wiggum said...

"I'm so hungry I could eat Arby's"

Anonymous said...

This is #7

I was not suggesting that the lot was "Historic". I was referring to the fact that Urban Prime is proposing to build units that are 3stories high. Those who live behind them will now be looked down apon by 3 story Lofts. We are not opposed to change. We just want those who propose the change to realize that Logan is our home and we would at least like to be heard.
There is no need to be sarcastic or petty.
And Prime Urban cannot move forward if the zoning is not changed from M2 to THE PROPOSED Urban N-2.
Currently the properties to the rear of the lot are R-2. Interesting that the RSP proposes to change their R2 to Residential/Industrial 1.

How does that work for Logan? I have a current piece of property with the option to have a two family residence and after RSP I can only have 1 or Industrial.

Ben Dayhoe said...

#7, thanks for your thoughts.

I'm curious as to what you can do about your situation in regards to what the RSP proposes with your land.

I'm sure you're not the only property owner facing this dilemma. With all of the town hall meetings, discussions, etc., have you been given a chance to speak your voice with someone other than Jay Trevino?

Email me.

But in the mean time, let's get back to the original question posted.

This post is close to being hijacked into a discussion about the RSP.

Remember, I said to forget about the Renaissance Project for a second.

#7, I'd still love to hear what you would build :)

Flustered Freddy said...

So I can't be sarcastic OR petty?

OK well in that case...

I uh,

wait don't tell me

I'll think of something...

Hold it, what about ah um

no that wont work.

OK I give up.

I've got nuthin.

Elvin said...


got a flyer about a renaissance plan Q & A meeting scheduled for this thursday, 6:30 - 8:30 @ St. Joseph's Parish Hall. city staff and stefanos polyzoides will be there.


Gustavo Arellano said...

Man, you don't even know this city for which you profess to love so much. To wit:

1. Borders or Barnes & Noble

Ever been to Libreria Martinez, run by a real-life Macarthur Genius grant winner? Why go to a chain when you can patronize a local business?

2. Chipotle

Much better burritos can be had at virtually any taco truck--and if that's too skeezy for you, there's always Taco Adobe.

3. Henry's, Tesco or Trader Joe's

There's already a Trader Joe's in Santa Ana

4. Coffee house (with Wi-Fi)

What's the Gypsy Den?

5. Citrus Cafe (or similar restaurants)

You already reviewed Jason's earlier--couple that with Bistro 400 and Memphis, and the pickings are good. And let's not even start on the hole-in-the-wall gems...

6. Old Navy (or even Gap)

American Apparel is mighty fine--and Nordstroms covers any other boring clothing needs.

7. Cold Stone (or similar ice cream parlor)

You don't like Han's?

8. Dry Cleaners

And what about the nice Koreans near 17th and Broadway?

Ben Dayhoe said...

Today's a great day!

I've been razzed by OC Weekly's very own ¡Ask a Mexican!®.

Defrost the steaks in the freezer honey–tonight, we’re celebrating!

I would have never thought that the likes of lil’ ol’ me would catch the eyes and ears of a professional like yourself quiĆ©n sabe todo.

I know you don’t care too much for the New Urbanist movement in this neighborhood, but do you honestly think that the folks living in these pseudo-lofts are the only ones that want decent amenities within a short walking distance?

Amigo, you seem to have all the answers to all my problems and I thank you, but you failed to answer the original question in the post.

What would you build?

The Frito Bandito said...


Good Evening to you Maestro Gustavo.
Let me be the first to congratulate you on your recent OCWEEKLY article debunking the renaissance plan. I agree with what you said in your article Roach coaches ARE the real gems of this barrio.
You may not have many fans amongst the other Loft owners but I want you to know that I’m on your side. Really. I only bought one so I could paint the outside bright fuchsia and open up a Bridal Boutique downstairs. ..

I want you to know
that your words touch me.
When you wrote that RSP was a:
“ plot to DeMexicanize downtown”
Its like you totally blew my mind man. If they succeed.. where will I get my corn chips?


Urban Messiah said...

O.k, I couldn't resist and am feeling opinionated tonight. I assumed we are meaning things which would be within a few steps of our loftaminimums? I agree that there are some really, really great things already in Santa Ana, e.g. Gypsy, Pop's, La Chiquita, American Apparel, Memphis, Rude Guerilla Theatre, Road Less Traveled, etc. Insofar as Libreria Martinez goes, I have to apologize, I honestly thought it was a Spanish language bookstore. My bad, but now I'll check it out, so thanks. But a lot of this stuff is spread out all over and requires a car to get to, which I wish wasn't the case given we don't have a public transportation system (which is actually a #1 for me in hindsight). The bad things, the blight, the youth who seem to run with impunity, tagging, etching, the jacked up zoning, etc. suck and areas like Logan, though historical in existance, hardly seem to be thriving. Companies like Ware Disposal have been allowed to run roughshod over this "historic" area. I have a front row seat to this travesty and feel sorry for the people who have to endure those trucks on a daily basis. How did the hell did that happen? Who LET that happen? But I digress. But I do have to take issue with Gustavo. To which I have to say, don't hate on the "New Urbanists" because some of us aren't so "new" at living in urban environments and sought this out as a refuge from the vanilla communities one faces when they move to Orange County. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I bought here as it stands today, should some of these things happen (with the exception of The Gap, sorry Ben) then great. Do I feel a general "plan" is needed, well, that's a whole other dialouge. But I do have to say there was never a "plan" for Long Beach that I know of, it just sorta happened. And honestly, it's kinda happening on it's own here too, finally. May not happen overnight and most likely it shouldn't. But I also don't feel that this area needs to be steralized and "District'd" like the rest of the faux-urban areas builders are marketing. If that happens then I'll be somewhere I avoided in the first place.

Anonymous said...

You people live in Downtown Santa with it!!

You bought your fancy little lofts and now want to make the area what?? LA??? This is Orange County, not the Greater Los Angeles Area.
Gustavo is right we have are own jems around here and you would rather have a Baja Fresh or Chiptloe, then real taco's from Taco Adobe. I had them for lunch on Friday.........YUM!!

Urban Messiah said...

#23, that's a lame ass already half baked response twice run over. I am constantly reminded, as you just did, of how utterly myopic so many are here, it's amazing really, someone should study this. Tell me, do you make excuses for everything else in your life? Nobody is talking about Baja Fresh, Chipotle in a literal construct and really isn't consistant with your LA statement. We are talking about urban renewal in this area, an area that has the only solid urban framework within Orange County. Downtown LA is developing exponentially out of both necessity and what looks to be a new age of "citizenery." People are taking back what previous generations left for dead when they headed to whatever "XYZ Viejo" or "Rancho del Boreo" community was being built. That's ultimately a wasteful use of land, resources and time in commutes, etc. I and many others are going back into the urban area in order to live what we feel is a more responsible existence. But what lies in front of us is a heaping mess of 50 years of neglect and ruin. So, what people like you and Gustavo are failing to see, beyond your blinders, is a mass renewal of urban living due to necessity and a new sense of responsibility. We can ill-afford to continue suburban sprawl and waste and I would hazard to say it's going to be a long running program so get used to it. But maybe that change is scary to some of you? If so, I know a good "Viejo" for you to move to.

Ben Dayhoe said...

Saint Chris,
I'm with you on the black people. I see 3 on a regular basis walking on the Blvd and I make sure to say hi to them. This city definitely needs to diversify before it can unify.

Thanks for the laughs. (Although I believe it was Sherri or Terri who said that line :)

Mr. Messiah,
I too was unaware about Libreria Martinez, but thanks to Gustavo, I have something new to explore.

If Santa Ana decides to go the way of the District (which really should have incorporated a monorail), I will more pissed than anyone. I'll even prove it with my pissed-off-o-meter.

Victoria Gardens is something I think planners and developers should be looking into (design and layout wise) to work with existing historical structures while creating a strong downtown environment.

Anon (1:03PM),
You call it Downtown Santa Ana, but really, walk on the streets where we live. It's not a "downtown" atmosphere at all, it's a ghost town.

(Laughing) What's everyone got against Chipotle? They use fresh ingredients and real-tasting cheese. If Taco Adobe wasn't a one mile walking distance, I'd probably go there more frequently.

Baja Fresh? I don't recall anyone suggesting that place! (I just barfed a little in my mouth.)

Lighten up people :)

Flustered Freddy said...

Taco Adobe is muy bueno.
The architecture is very familiar,
but I cant quite place it...
Maybe if it were blue?

Anyway, they do good things
with fish and have quite a lunch
crowd from the courthouses.

Its just a bit too far for me to
walk on my stubby little legs.

I'll clue everyone in to something.
I've lived "downtown" for 12 years now.
And I know every gem by heart.
Even the roach coach where I ate last night in the name of fairness (parked in front of the Lavanderia 24/7) Its very good, nice people, and they take phone orders...
But its still too far, and frankly, for health reasons "Soup Plantation" is about the only place I could consider eating regularly.

Until I've got two restaurants, a bar, a cafe and a newsstand within a stones throw of my front door... This place is "Downtown" in name only to me... And now that I think about it a pancake place might be nice... Why am I thinking of pancakes all of a sudden?

Thomas Anthony Gordon said...

Companies like Ware Disposal have been allowed to run roughshod over this "historic" area.How did the hell did that happen? Who LET that happen?

Who let it happen?

Your elected City Council that takes $$$ from Judy Ware every election cycle and then turns a blind eye when she breaks local, state and federal laws on a daily basis.


Urban Messiah said...

But I thought you guys were all lovey on Ms Martinez? Are you saying she let this happen? What does measure D have to do with what's already in hand? Sorry, man, but the buck can only get passed along so far. If that even remotely came close to happening anywhere else people would have sh@t and stopped it in it's tracks. Logan needs to fire up and take back their barrio because it looks to me like they got rolled over on this one. How about a protest, put some banners up on the corner of Civic and Santiago and stir it up? Go to the papers, the local news, the feds...I doubt Ms. Ware has the financial ability to affect anyone beyond this banana republic so I doubt this has gotten that far. Tell you what, I'm a the point that if I have to listen the bomb-like noise the trucks make I may start this thing and find out for you. In the meantime, let's get the kids stop tagging everywhere else and tag their trucks with "WARE destroyed my family's quality of life and it's nasty trucks are loud and dangerous and run stop signs with impunity so watch out?"

Frito Bandito and the New Urbanists said...

Just let the RSP do its thing and Ware will get washed out in the process... Confront Ware directly and we'll spook the council and they wont do shit.

Anonymous said...

Check out the proposed zoning for Wares properties. She has the choice of Residential OR Industrial. And as the city planner said ,zoning variances will be granted!

Gustavo Arellano said...

Ben: Wish list? Leave downtown SanTana as it is, sans any gangs. Eliminate gangs via increased police force--not just cameras, but cops on the street. Nuke the cholos. Otherwise, let the free market reign. As I've said on the Weekly's blog, I personally think there are too many quinceaƱera shops on Fourth Street and would like cooler shops there--but I don't own the property, nor do I pay rent there. And I don't want capricious councilmembers who perpetually suffer from conflict-of-influenza to dictate development. One final point: that you don't want to walk a mile for a good restaurant either shows you're lazy or frightfully myopic. And, judging by the fact you were "unaware" about Libreria Martinez, I'd wager on the latter.

The Frito Bandito said...

If anyones wondering where the child-like anonymous posts are coming from

ala "You live in SanTana-get used to it!"

Well we can thank our friend Gustavo for riling the passions of the mentally challenged in his blog "Navel Gazing" in which he
blessed we loft owners with a link from his blog today- Where he called us all "Clueless hipsters who want to turn this city into Aliso Viejo"

Click here to be insulted

I've lived here all my life and I'm still not a native enough for this man... But I aint mad atcha Goose!
I know in order to meet your standards I would have had to have been born much further south.
As to the meeting, I'm ready.
But I think we can forget about being heard tonight. The audience will be well stacked with Philistines who've been told we're going to knock down their houses with them still inside... Nice One Goose. Somebody remind me to send him a nice fruit basket.

Urban Messiah said...


No, it's got nothing to do with laziness or being myopic and seriously, that's a shit low blow to throw. It's especially shitty when it's directed at someone who's putting out an effort to take civic awareness to higher level for his fellow resident and takes the time to create a blog which for the most part celebrates what's already here. Weak. I thought you were a little more pro than that, guess you proved me wrong. Insofar as walking to get a coffee or dinner, we all do that here and think nothing of it, hell, my wife and I walk to the mall. Although, since our own councilwoman was rolled as she walked to the last Ren Plan meeting not too far from here you'll understand if some of us are a little sketched walking around too much at night. And lastly, your post, on the Naval...WTF? Many of us agree that the name NoLo is well, not accurate and lame. But to sit and here and try and build some case against a bunch of people you don't know, well, that's the same logic many who live in communities around Santa Ana uses against those living here. So, if logic follows logic, your statements make you no better than the dic%head from Ladera Ranch driving around in his H2 wondering which Starbucks he'll hit next whilst wishing the "dumb Mexican" would get his POS lawn service truck out of the way. Wait, now I just did it, damn it. Sorry Ladera Ranch.

Robert said...


It was a pleasure to meet you yesterday at the renaissance plan meeting.

What I would build on that area is a bunch of nudy bars and massage parlors, where we cant get a good lap with a happy ending. jk lol : )

There's a lot of hiding gems in this city, where you could try some of the most delicious foods this city has to affor.

I too would like this renaissance plan to be like the gas lamp district in San Diego, Downtown Long beach on Pine and Sunset Blvd. on Hollywood.
But first we need to learn how coexist to with each other in this city.
Remember, what I spoke to you about yesterday.
People have roots, have been leaving here since the 1890s and are scared of the Brown Out plan.

Those houses have been in their familes for generations and have been passed down to the next son or daughter like a family heirloom.

If you want to know more about the history of Santa Ana go to Libreria Martinez or the Santa Ana library.

Keep in touch Sean, E-mail me or call me. I'll give you and your friends all the run down of these city and take you to hidden gems.

Ben Dayhoe said...

Agreed. It was great meeting you too Sean.

I'm hopeful we can become good friends and neighbors.

People like Robert are an inspiration to the youth in this city.

Robert said...


I'm a native in this city, I was born and raised here.
There is nothing wrong for us the the young professionals to want a nice urban place like the Gas light district or Downtown Long Beach. I'm very aware of the hidden gems that this city has to offer.

If you would ever talk to the us the natives that were born and raised here. We would tell you that we want an urban place were we can call our own.

We don't want to drive miles, to go San Diego, Hollywood and Long Beach.

We all have to learn how to coexist with each other, where Santa Ana would be a thriving place for everybody.

Im Mexican-American, I would like Santa Ana to be a multi cultural place for Blacks, Whites, Asian, Arabs and Hispanics to live in peace and harmony.

This country does not belong to the whites, Mexicans, Spanish or Indians. this country belongs to God and he wants us to coexists with each other in peace and harmony.

This city has done a poor job, to try and keep us natives that were born and raised here.

This city has been a revolving door to immigrants like Ellis Island) All off us know what we went though here and don't want to start a family and raise our kids here and put them through what we went through, Like teachers and adults putting us down, that were stupid and never amount to anything.

if this city would do a better job of keeping us young natives to stay here, we would be the positive role models that these kids need and start being the role models that we never had.

These kids look up to the negative role models, like the cholos, since all us positives role models have left the city for a better life in another city.

If this city would keep us here. We would make a difference for the kids in this city to look up to us.

Just name me a few Positive role Models that are hispanic that these kids want to be when they grow up, that live in this city?

Urban Messiah said...

10-4 on that Robert. It's really not that hard, but when people try to force it, e.g. the city council, that's when things get complicated and ultimately fail. It was painfully obvious to me the other night that this RSP is forced and feels forced, they are simply trying too hard.

Robert said...

Urban Messiah,

I understand the peoples frustration. I was born and raised in this city. If you remember the civic center barrio that used to be where the police station and parking lot is? These people were forced out of there homes and were only giving a month to evacuate. They had bulldozers ready to demolish there homes. These people had no other choice but to give in since they didn't want to sell their homes.

I grew up on Washington and Broadway. It was a really peaceful neighborhood, Whites and Hispanics coexisted with each. Once the developers came they had a vision to make that place a thriving place to live. They built so many apartments in that area and look at it now it's a piss hole. My Dad decided to move us to Sandpoint, since gangs started to move in and didn't want us to be influenced by gangs. The apartments were to expensive for anybody to move in so all the immigrants moved in.

Now I understand why the people of Logan, are upset!
That area has a lot of history, but it also has it’s negative since barrio Logan gang started from there. I hope they don't demolish Logan since it's the oldest Mexican neighborhood in Orange County. I believe if the people from Logan would get together with the people of the Santiago lofts, Lacy, French Park and the industrial business I know all of you would come up with a solution so everybody would agree on and be happy.

I went to the RSP meeting and just observe everything that went on and it seemed to me that everybody is not working together. It seemed like if everybody is alienated with other communities.

Urban Messiah lets work together and bring all the communities together to come up with a solution that everybody can agree on. If nobody does it, civic center is going to do what ever it wants to. Just like it did with other older neighborhoods.

The Frito Bandito said...

I want another RSP meeting as well.
This time with just Lofties and Industrial owners. Lets just keep it simple for now. I'm really not interested in having Mr. Mecha call me a yuppie again. Especially when Im fighting hard to maintain a middle class income. His ilk can stay home and stew for a while. Or they can busy themselves looking for Urban Hipsters hiding in their bushes... I dont care what they do as long as they dont waste another meeting with militant horseshit.

The RSP need not include them at all. I say this not out of respect for the proud history of Santa Anas first Mexican Barrio, but out of the very practical reality that we just don't need it. The RSP need not mess with the Logan at all. It can stay. It isn't in the way of anything that matters.

Just leave them be.

All we need to turn this neighborhood around is for that little mall into the train station parking lot to get built. Do that.
And do storefronts with lofts above
all the way down Santa Ana Blvd from Grand to Bush.And we'll all enjoy a quality of life consistent with our mortgages and down town residents wont need to leave Santa Ana every time their shopping list calls for more than Tacos.

For now, let the Logan stand- its NOT in the way... Just start with the train station! It should be easy.

And visit my BLOG

Anonymous said...

Robert,Ben,Urban Messiah & Frito,
Thanks for feeling our frustration. I undrstand your thoughts on leaving Logan alone and not wanting to listen to the "Yuppie Assault".One of the biggest problems is that no one really truly understands the RSP and there are so many hidden agendas and surprises within the plan. It would be great to meet with differant groups but there is no time. The Draft EIR will be released next Friday and we only have 45 days to respond. Many of us responded to the NOP in 2006 and were told that our answers would be in the Draft EIR. If only a few respond to the EIR we may lose the War. And it is a War, we have been at battle since April of 2006 and have never let up.Many of the abandoned houses have already been "sold" to developers by the redevelopment agency. The City loves to hide those agenda items in the small print. Not all Industry is like Ware Disposal. She is the exception and the other Industrial Business owners would truly appreciate it if we were not lumped together with that mess she has going on!
Enough said..hopefully many of us can meet and exchange information and knowledge regarding the plan.

Robert said...


I would like to talk with Joe Andrade, Hopefully we all can have a meeting with him.

Emma Goldman said...

To Poster #41 (whew thats alot of comments!) Not too worried about "losing the war". Really, whats the worst that could happen? We lose some industrial business and and a ghetto and gain a downtown. I feel for those affected by this... I hope they find a place in the new downtown- I do. But the only thing thats gonna make me angry is if they manage to tie this whole thing up in committees for the next ten years until someone else comes up with a great idea for everyone to shit on.

Anonymous said...


Do you even get it????

Emma Goldman said...

why don't you explain it to me?

miguel az said...

this is disgusting. basically you all want the latino people out of santa ana especially downtown. no chance what so ever. we'll fight back to the city council about this.

Santa ana is latin community just like la. fight the rsp. viva.

miguel az said...

This is sad. Basically the rsp wants the mexican stores out of downtown santa chance because we will fight back against this.

leave downtown santa ana the way it is. viva. si se puede.

Santa Ana is my home.

Ben Dayhoe said...

Wow. Someone has been diving through the archives. Welcome Miguel.

No one ever said they want to de-Mexicanize Santa Ana, just offer residents who live here what they deserve.

Do some homework on Santa Ana before it became what you call a "latin community".

People from all over wanted to visit this shiny metropolis. Does it make you proud that your "latin community" is often referred to as the asshole of Orange County?

Don't you want to give the youth something to aspire for? A community where they can take pride in rather being just a giant wall for them to write on?

How about becoming somewhere where they could see a great future for themselves, rather just a reason to get educated and the hell out?

How about a community where the educated youth choose to stay after finishing school and choose to continue to make Santa Ana their home, thus strengthening the foundation of this great city for generations to come?

Don't you think all of the people of Santa Ana deserve a downtown they are proud of and entertains a nightlife that supports ALL of the struggling businesses downtown?

Current Santa Ana does nothing for the youth but provide a breeding ground for ignorance and violence.

Sure, keep Santa Ana the way it is. The Renaissance Plan won't be the death of your "latin race", but rather a foolish belief in the status quo.

Or could you just be suffering from an acute case of xenophobia?

Cause that my friend, would be truly sad.

Bulldozer said...

This man may enjoy the idea of maintaining the "permanent underclass" position of his unassimilated people, with a downtown that smacks of the 3rd world... but I would have him take note, that the noble culture of freedom that his family has fled to is one that deserves his full participation and not just his labor. His militant attitude is a smack in the face to the country from which he has taken so much, and he needs to stop with the
"self defeated, permanently regulated to the lower rungs of society" machismo, pull his head out of the sand, and stand up for something bigger than a country that was so awful, he had to flee from it. And Miguel? WE CAN TOO!
(and we can do it with with both feet firmly planted on US soil)

Fast Cat said...

As I was reading some of the comments in this thread, I sort of had the same bewilderment as Gustavo. There were a number of national retailers included in people’s wish list for the area. However, I would think that those who want to be apart of the urban fabric would desire establishments that were more eclectic that give the area an uniqueness and character.

The national retailers as a general rule are somewhat risk adverse when choosing a location. They want to apply an already proven formula when it comes where they intend to merchandize their wares, such as a well known highly visible location with large anchor tenants. Therefore I think you need to temper your expectations.

I would suggest you contact the city’s economic development group and find out the specific establishments that are truly interested in moving to the area. Then organize a letter writing campaign to attract those particular retailers or restaurants. Trader Joes chose to build a store in the Bixby Knolls area of Long Beach over other possible SoCal locations that they had been studying based on interest that was conveyed by those residents.

Again you have to be somewhat realistic in who you can attract. If you have a Henry’s across from Mainplace and a Trader Joe’s at Bristol and MacArthur (I believe), then you are probably not going to get another specialty grocer a few miles from those competitors. There are only so many potential shoppers within any given area.

Ben Dayhoe said...

Ahhh...Good threads never die.
Gustavo had all the right to jump all over me about this thread.

When possible, my wife and I always try to support the local shops and one-offs.

Granted, I would love to see Downtown Santa Ana develop into a unique artistic and cultural enclave (our very own Abbot Kinney St. so to speak), but it's not going to happen (in this town) unless something drastic spurs economic growth.

For one, rezoning downtown to allow residential living in a non mixed-use dwelling will help the few restaurants flourish.

Second, we could definitely benefit from a chain establishment in downtown.

Just the other day I was speaking with the owners of Bistro 400 and they were thrilled with the idea of a Wahoo's Tacos moving to W. Fourth Street.

Wahoo's? Really?

Their mentality was to let a large corporation with big bucks handle the high cost of marketing to attracting people to Downtown Santa Ana.

Eventually the Wahoo's customers will discover Bistro, Tommy's and Jason's.

Since this post, I've tried on my own to reach several corporations to attract them to our quasi-downtown--I even went as far as to create a marketing package.

I was most shocked when my beloved Chipotle expressed no interest.

Sure, Chipotle isn't Mexican food, but every time I'm in a Chipotle, it's full of Mexicans (on both sides of the counter).

How are you going to tell me that you're a Mexican restaurant, but you don't want to come to an urban setting juxtaposed to a high-density Hispanic neighborhood?

But I digress like I always do.

A while back I made a contact at the city who deals with attracting large tenants at events like ICSC. He even said that it's been a difficult task attracting retail giants to this city.

When it all comes down to it my friend, it's not that I want a specific retailer/restaurant to fill my consumerist void, I just feel that this town, this area in particular deserves more--especially the residents.

Thanks for stopping by Fast Cat. I really do appreciate you bringing solutions to the table :)

Erin.MacDougall said...

YES! And emphasis on coffee house.