Wednesday, January 16, 2008

The (Potential) Tragedy of Santa Ana

Whether or not we all agree that the Renaissance Plan is the answer to Santa Ana, James Howard Kunstler speaks some hard truths in this video that hit very close to home.



A thanks goes out to "Ted" who posted this link as a comment in the previous post. I think that this is a message that should be seen by all.

19 comments :

Urban Messiah said...

F YEAH, this is brilliant. Can we get him to come down and speak?

Santa Ana Slim said...

Haha. I used to live in Boston and that city hall place was pretty lame. It's mostly used as a playground for skateboarders and urban trials riders. Though funny enough across the street from that rear view is Faneuil Hall, which is one of the most popular areas, much like that first outside market he mentioned right before that.

-SAS

Anonymous said...

We like the concept..agree with the needs of future generations.
We are opposed to the way the RSP has been presented. Why does the taking of property & business have to be a factor? Progress is great ..just don't try to shove it down our throats. We are citizens and we have just as much right to be here as you do. In fact we are not transplants..we were born and raised in this city.There has got to be a compromise.

Anonymous said...

Who are the "we" you are referring to?

Where exactly in the Renaissance Plan does it say to take businesses and homes? No one has been forced out, have they? Everyone who has left, sold their properties to the city.

Eminent domain is not and will not happen.

The problem I have with the RP is that it might be too strict in what can be built and where, thus delaying progress more than advancing it.

Having a huge master plan takes away from the organic nature of true urban sprawls and creates a monstrosity worthy of the Irvine Company.

Anonymous said...

Thw "we" are the citizens that live and work within the RSP.
Look carefully atchapter 4. It clearly states taht all non -conforming must be up to code within 2 years. They fail to mention that when the public questions the ramifications of "non-conforming".

What makes you so sure that they will not use eminent domain? How do you think they are going to make the proposed sidewalks and additional lanes?

We are the We said...


Where Can I read the actual text of the RSP?


Does it even exist on paper yet?

Or is it just a buzz phrase?


This city loves its catchy phrases...

It just tends to fall short on following through.

I don't much like corporate welfare
but attracting the right kinds of business in the usual way would suck- Its pretty clear though that a downtown wont spring up "organically". I say clear the land- and write the new code to say that anything built must conform to "mainstreet USA" style buildings... And then let them come. And let the free market do the rest.

If you own land already... your in luck. Because it'll be worth more.

We are the We said...

Never mind I found it.
Here it is in all its glory.


http://www.ci.santa-ana.ca.us/pba/planning/Renaissance_Specific_Plan.asp

We are afraid of the only positive change to come to this city in a long time said...

Will the City be buying any properties using “eminent domain”?

No. The Redevelopment Agency does have several offers pending for properties within the general area of the previously purchased properties, but all sales would be purely voluntary.


http://www.ci.santa-ana.ca.us/pba/planning/documents/SARSP-FAQs_Redevelopment.pdf

Anonymous said...

Do you really believe that statement?
What happens when all the industrial becomes "non-conforming"?
Why would all those homeowners sell??
Perhaps they were provided information that made them realize that they could nolonger fight the "Big Machine"?

Who are others to say our land would be worth more? You can not know what a familys business is worth to them. Money and development is not what drives everyone. And if you were faced with what property owners are faced with ...you might be whistling a very differant tune!While you are on the city site print ALL the documents and read between the lines..you may be very very surprised.Read it Know it understand it and then post.

Anonymous said...

Do you really believe that statement?
What happens when all the industrial becomes "non-conforming"?
Why would all those homeowners sell??
Perhaps they were provided information that made them realize that they could nolonger fight the "Big Machine"?

Who are others to say our land would be worth more? You can not know what a familys business is worth to them. Money and development is not what drives everyone. And if you were faced with what property owners are faced with ...you might be whistling a very differant tune!While you are on the city site print ALL the documents and read between the lines..you may be very very surprised.Read it Know it understand it and then post.

Mose said...

Fact: There are NO protections in the RSP which would prohibit the CITY from using "eminent domain" to take private property and give it to a developer.

The Redevopment Agency is a legally separate identity from the CITY.

This is a clever trick by the CITY; amounting to an outright deception and LIE !!

Two Fisted Mama said...

The city needs no tricks.

If it would simply enforce

the codes

it already has on the books,

than most of the owners who

haven't sold yet would have to

go anyway. The city is doing

this the nice way...

not the easy way.

The thing that gets me is these

high density crackerjack box

apartments right in the middle

of everything...

are those coming down?

Because those are whats in the

way now- thats where the crime comes from.

and I'm sure the folks

that own those have enough cash

to screw up the plan if they

want to...

And while I'm on the subject,

Who ARE these people that

think the RSP is gonna take

their houses?

Are they folks renting apartments?

If so, their opinions don't really matter... Sounds bad, but its true... only the person or company that owns the land is in a position to do anything other than argue and waste time.

mose said...

two fisted mama:

Code enfocement won't do any good.

Businesses which the city wants to run out of town are operating as conforming according to the code in effect at the time the improvements were established.

Nothing to enforce - they are "legal nonconforming" according to SA Muni Code.

Two Fisted Mama said...

Mose,

How does that happen?

Those places are rat traps!

We need something like the RSP,

I just hope it doesn't

get mucked up with so much

compromise that everybody loses.

(which is what so often happens in politics)

mose said...

two fisted mama:

they are not all rat traps - as the RSP stands now, the city will throw out the good businesses with the bad.

i don't think that you signed up to live in irvine type condo heaven - this can be worked out.

or perhaps "two fisted mama" would prefer to duke it out - we could put the gloves on at santa ana boxing club, 4th st.

just kidding - i think that you may be too tough for me.

Ben Dayhoe said...

After hearing the valid concerns of the industrial owners last night (very nice folks, btw), I too believe that an overlay is a must.

I moved here because of the flavor that these industrial businesses bring–not to force them out. Hell, I'm trying to harden up my "soft-loft" with industrial accents.

The city has it all wrong if they think that kicking out the industrial businesses is what we want.

My buddy Thomas Gordon suggested that the loft and industrial owners should collectively speak to Trevino and Co. about a peaceful co-existence.

I strongly agree.

Two Fisted Mama said...

My babies don't need to be

growin up with all that garbage

mess from that Dump.

That place been polluting and

wrecking the streets down here

for years.

And even if she wasnt,

that shit dont got no kinda

place in a neighborhood with

with my babies living in it.

Id rather get rid of all y'all

than let that rich bitch stay.

Yeah, I know about her.

If the city wants to let us pick

and choose, then Id probably

vote to let most them nasty

business's stay I guess.

But not that nasty ass Ware bitch,

and not nothing on Santa Ana Blvd

neither.

If y'all on Santa Ana Blvd than

y'alls shit has got to move.

Simple as that.

Theres a brighter day coming

to this hood and I aint gonna let

no greedy ass white men or no

scared ass mexicans

fuck it up. I been waiting too

long for this city to finally do

something. Its the biggest city

around. Got nothing but money.

And you telling me that they cant

build a decent downtown on account

of some folks who ought not have

been allowed to set up shop in

the first place?

Mose said...

To two fisted mama...

I want those lousy no good stinkin' s.o.b.'s out too!

All the city has to do is follow through on each and every code violation.

If that don't work for you I'll meet you at S.A. boxing club.

regards Mose

Two Fisted Mama said...

You crazy Mose!

but I like that.

Looks to me like both

of us on the same team.


But you can meet my

oldest boy if you like.


But I'm afraid that

I am just too much of a lady

to go boxing strange men

in public.

Anyhow, I know you dont want

nobody seeing a middle aged

black woman beating your silly ass.